The True Nature of Happiness

[blu]

Lack of understanding of the true nature of happiness, it seems to me,
is the principal reason why people inflict sufferings on others. They
think either that the other's pain may somehow be a cause of happiness
for themselves or that their own happiness is more important,
regardless of what pain it may cause. But this is shortsighted: no one
truly benefits from causing harm to another sentient being. Whatever
immediate advantage is gained at the expense of someone else is
shortlived. In the long run, causing others misery and infringing
their rights to peace and happiness result in anxiety, fear, and
suspicion within oneself. Such feelings undermine the peace of mind
and contentment which are the marks of happiness. True happiness comes
not from a limited concern for one's own well-being, or that of those
one feels close to, but from developing love and compassion for all
sentient beings. Here, love means wishing that all sentient beings
should find happiness, and compassion means wishing that they should
all be free of suffering. The development of this attitude gives rise
to a sense of openness and trust that provides the basis for peace.

 --The Dalai Lama, from The Dalai Lama: A Policy of Kindness, edited
by Sidney Piburn
 from Everyday Mind, edited by Jean Smith, a Tricycle book

[mika]

"Lack of understanding of the true nature of happiness,

What is "the true nature of happiness"?

it seems to me,
is the principal reason why people inflict sufferings on others. They
think either that the other's pain may somehow be a cause of happiness
for themselves or that their own happiness is more important,
regardless of what pain it may cause. But this is shortsighted: no one
truly benefits from causing harm to another sentient being. Whatever
immediate advantage is gained at the expense of someone else is
shortlived. In the long run, causing others misery and infringing
their rights to peace and happiness result in anxiety, fear, and
suspicion within oneself. Such feelings undermine the peace of mind
and contentment which are the marks of happiness. True happiness comes
not from a limited concern for one's own well-being, or that of those
one feels close to, but from developing love and compassion for all
sentient beings. Here, love means wishing that all sentient beings
should find happiness, and compassion means wishing that they should
all be free of suffering. The development of this attitude gives rise
to a sense of openness and trust that provides the basis for peace."
--The Dalai Lama, from The Dalai Lama: A Policy of Kindness, edited
by Sidney Piburn
from Everyday Mind, edited by Jean Smith, a Tricycle book

Are there other translations for the word originally used by the Dalai
Lama that was later interpreted by these editors to mean "happiness"?
It seems to me that a Buddhist would wish that all sentient beings
should find peace and contentment regardless of feeling happiness (or
sadness or any other transitory emotion).

[blu]

Post by mika

"Lack of understanding of the true nature of happiness,

What is "the true nature of happiness"?

I can't answer you, Mika. I'm not there yet.

Post by mika

it seems to me,
is the principal reason why people inflict sufferings on others. They
think either that the other's pain may somehow be a cause of happiness
for themselves or that their own happiness is more important,
regardless of what pain it may cause. But this is shortsighted: no one
truly benefits from causing harm to another sentient being. Whatever
immediate advantage is gained at the expense of someone else is
shortlived. In the long run, causing others misery and infringing
their rights to peace and happiness result in anxiety, fear, and
suspicion within oneself. Such feelings undermine the peace of mind
and contentment which are the marks of happiness. True happiness comes
not from a limited concern for one's own well-being, or that of those
one feels close to, but from developing love and compassion for all
sentient beings. Here, love means wishing that all sentient beings
should find happiness, and compassion means wishing that they should
all be free of suffering. The development of this attitude gives rise
to a sense of openness and trust that provides the basis for peace."
--The Dalai Lama, from The Dalai Lama: A Policy of Kindness, edited
by Sidney Piburn
from Everyday Mind, edited by Jean Smith, a Tricycle book

Are there other translations for the word originally used by the Dalai
Lama that was later interpreted by these editors to mean "happiness"?
It seems to me that a Buddhist would wish that all sentient beings
should find peace and contentment regardless of feeling happiness (or
sadness or any other transitory emotion).

Yes, I'd think so, too. The Bodhisattva tradition of Buddhism deals with
the happiness and enlightenment of all sentient things.

I have no clue as to another translation of this post. Sorry.

[Kisai]

Post by mika

"Lack of understanding of the true nature of happiness,

What is "the true nature of happiness"?

"To crush your enemies, have them driven before you and hear the
lamentation of their women." -Conan the Barbarian

[bigfootbubba]

Post by Kisai
"To crush your enemies, have them driven before you and hear the
lamentation of their women." -Conan the Barbarian

Wise words from the gropenfuhrer!

[Tom]

Post by blu
Lack of understanding of the true nature of happiness, it seems to me,
is the principal reason why people inflict sufferings on others. They
think either that the other's pain may somehow be a cause of happiness
for themselves or that their own happiness is more important,
regardless of what pain it may cause. But this is shortsighted: no one
truly benefits from causing harm to another sentient being.

With great temerity, I'll argue with the Dalai Lama about this.

Frankly, one *can* commit such an act and achieve long-term gain from it in
all sorts of ways. One gains, to take an extreme example, if one eats the
victim. We all know the beneficial effects of a protein-rich diet.
Further, it might be considered gain to obtain your victim's wealth by
harming them if they won't give it to you freely. Another possibility is
that the perpetrator of the harm could be doing it to continue his or her
own survival or means of acquisition, which they would definitely see as a
benefit in the long term. Unless of course, you don't consider "true
benefit" to be a matter of survival or the acquisition of worldly goods.
One can extend those conditions to international conflicts and war as well
as to the world of organized crime. Is it not beneficial in a very large
and long-lasting sense to work harm on human beings who are members of a
group bent on the extermination of *your* group? If your family and the
friends of your family become wealthy for many generations to come because
of your violent depredations, how could that not be a "true benefit"? Do
you think folks four or five generations back are going to care very much
about how reprehensible the deeds were that generated the wealth they have
grown up with? Do you think that any of them would consider the descendents
of those long-ago victims to be justified in taking their wealth away now
because a long-ago ancestor treated them badly?

Then we have to consider that sometimes the infliction of pain is a
necessary precursor to a greater cure. The dentist pulls your tooth, a very
painful act, but which often results in an overall benefit. The dentist may
not be happy about inflicting pain (unless he's like the dentist in "Little
Shop of Horrors") but is willing to do so for the chance at achieving a
greater good. In fact, he'll charge his victims a pretty penny for his
services. Yet, if this act is seen only in the short-term, does it not look
like the dentist is doing something evil?

So do many nations justify their wars. It's for the greater good, you know.

[blu]

Post by Tom

Post by blu
Lack of understanding of the true nature of happiness, it seems to me,
is the principal reason why people inflict sufferings on others. They
think either that the other's pain may somehow be a cause of happiness
for themselves or that their own happiness is more important,
regardless of what pain it may cause. But this is shortsighted: no one
truly benefits from causing harm to another sentient being.

With great temerity, I'll argue with the Dalai Lama about this.

I suspect the Dalai Lama would welcome your arguements.

Post by Tom
Frankly, one *can* commit such an act and achieve long-term gain from it in
all sorts of ways. One gains, to take an extreme example, if one eats the
victim. We all know the beneficial effects of a protein-rich diet.
Further, it might be considered gain to obtain your victim's wealth by
harming them if they won't give it to you freely. Another possibility is
that the perpetrator of the harm could be doing it to continue his or her
own survival or means of acquisition, which they would definitely see as a
benefit in the long term. Unless of course, you don't consider "true
benefit" to be a matter of survival or the acquisition of worldly goods.

Transitory, illusions, etc.

Post by Tom
One can extend those conditions to international conflicts and war as
well as to the world of organized crime. Is it not beneficial in a very
large and long-lasting sense to work harm on human beings who are
members of a group bent on the extermination of *your* group? If your
family and the friends of your family become wealthy for many
generations to come because of your violent depredations, how could that
not be a "true benefit"? Do you think folks four or five generations
back are going to care very much about how reprehensible the deeds were
that generated the wealth they have grown up with? Do you think that
any of them would consider the descendents of those long-ago victims to
be justified in taking their wealth away now because a long-ago ancestor
treated them badly?

Do *I* think so? Personally, no. I am a pacifist. I'd give before it was
taken.

Post by Tom
Then we have to consider that sometimes the infliction of pain is a
necessary precursor to a greater cure. The dentist pulls your tooth, a
very painful act, but which often results in an overall benefit. The
dentist may not be happy about inflicting pain (unless he's like the
dentist in "Little Shop of Horrors") but is willing to do so for the
chance at achieving a greater good. In fact, he'll charge his victims a
pretty penny for his services. Yet, if this act is seen only in the
short-term, does it not look like the dentist is doing something evil?
So do many nations justify their wars. It's for the greater good, you know.

In other words... "Free Tibet"

He deals with that issue in his book "How to Expand Love" =which I'm
reading now. Will update on it when finished.

[Bassos]

Post by blu
Lack of understanding of the true nature of happiness,

the true nature of happiness is being happy.
It is an act.

[Martin Swain]

Post by Bassos

Post by blu
Lack of understanding of the true nature of happiness,

the true nature of happiness is being happy.
It is an act.

I don't think that's what he meant. For instance, suppose someone is cruel.
They might enjoy it, however later on they might experience remorse. Does
being cruel make that person happy? Not in the long run.

[Bassos]

Post by Martin Swain

Post by Bassos

Post by blu
Lack of understanding of the true nature of happiness,

the true nature of happiness is being happy.
It is an act.

I don't think that's what he meant. For instance, suppose someone is cruel.
They might enjoy it, however later on they might experience remorse. Does
being cruel make that person happy? Not in the long run.

Joy and happyness are not the same beasty.

Somewhat related, i'll grant you that.

Perhaps my position here is also that being cruel is not enjoyed.
It is the feeling powerfull that may bring some fear releave and thereby a
feeling akin to pleasure.
Not happyness, nor joy though. (imo ofc)

[David Carter]

Post by Bassos

Post by blu
Lack of understanding of the true nature of happiness,

the true nature of happiness is being happy.
It is an act.

One pov. Another is that what the Dalai Lama said is right on the
context of Buddhism. A few years ago, Buddhist monks from all countries
were asked to produce one statement which summed up the various
principles of Buddhism. hey chose 'Life is sorrow', which I suppose
could be rewritten as understanding is sorrow if one were so inclined.
If one *is* so inclined, then a lack of understanding would be happiness.

This is consistent with the principle of Kabbalah as well. Binah is
understanding, the vision of Binah is the Vision of Sorrow. A nice
reference to this appears in Moonchild, which although it is itself a
work of fiction, woven into the storyline is a huge amount of real
Magical work.

Carter

[-hi-]

Post by blu
Lack of understanding of the true nature of happiness, it seems to me,
is the principal reason why people inflict sufferings on others. They
think either that the other's pain may somehow be a cause of happiness
for themselves or that their own happiness is more important,
regardless of what pain it may cause. But this is shortsighted: no one
truly benefits from causing harm to another sentient being. Whatever
immediate advantage is gained at the expense of someone else is
shortlived. In the long run, causing others misery and infringing
their rights to peace and happiness result in anxiety, fear, and
suspicion within oneself. Such feelings undermine the peace of mind
and contentment which are the marks of happiness. True happiness comes
not from a limited concern for one's own well-being, or that of those
one feels close to, but from developing love and compassion for all
sentient beings. Here, love means wishing that all sentient beings
should find happiness, and compassion means wishing that they should
all be free of suffering. The development of this attitude gives rise
to a sense of openness and trust that provides the basis for peace.

I've been working on this, reminiscing a bit ...
considering whether or not it might fit
to list all the things I think some people miss
when overlooking the fact, form and function of bliss.
But, knowing my limits, this point is conceded -
that everything said here has oft been repeated.

This poem, I mean, can be seen consequently,
as touching the heart of such matters so gently
that what passes by, or flies just over head
is better than leaving something left unsaid.

If you follow along with my song, this "-hi- tune",
the greater the chance is you'll see that quite soon,
despite the distraction (didactically speaking),
you'll find peace of mind is always in the seeking!

The farther this goes without showing how it
relates to the subject, or really commits
to interpretation - translation in kind
of all the odd things one might expect to find,
but couldn't quite say, or just couldn't converse
about "what it all means", or pertains to in verse,
and what's in a heart ... You see, this part's explaining
the facts of the matter, and thereto pertaining.

I'm happy I could. I mean, would you believe
that this effort here took a while to conceive?
It may not seem like much of a cogent epistle,
but it's the best I could do other than simply whistle
the tune in my head. Like I said, it's a song -
this thing I have written that gets rather long
without saying much, such and such, this and that.

So little in fact some might think it's just scat.
And they might be right. I won't fight that conclusion,
and risk that the fight might cause me the contusion
and bruising the losing of tempers would bring.
Or worse, if this verse I also had to sing.

But if there's a reason to this circumstance,
I thank you for giving me this certain chance
to have your attention, knowing what, where, why,
who, when, how to end this. Of course, with a ...

-hi-

[blu]

Post by -hi-

Post by blu
Lack of understanding of the true nature of happiness, it seems to me,
is the principal reason why people inflict sufferings on others. They
think either that the other's pain may somehow be a cause of happiness
for themselves or that their own happiness is more important,
regardless of what pain it may cause. But this is shortsighted: no one
truly benefits from causing harm to another sentient being. Whatever
immediate advantage is gained at the expense of someone else is
shortlived. In the long run, causing others misery and infringing
their rights to peace and happiness result in anxiety, fear, and
suspicion within oneself. Such feelings undermine the peace of mind
and contentment which are the marks of happiness. True happiness comes
not from a limited concern for one's own well-being, or that of those
one feels close to, but from developing love and compassion for all
sentient beings. Here, love means wishing that all sentient beings
should find happiness, and compassion means wishing that they should
all be free of suffering. The development of this attitude gives rise
to a sense of openness and trust that provides the basis for peace.

I've been working on this, reminiscing a bit ...
considering whether or not it might fit
to list all the things I think some people miss
when overlooking the fact, form and function of bliss.
But, knowing my limits, this point is conceded -
that everything said here has oft been repeated.
This poem, I mean, can be seen consequently,
as touching the heart of such matters so gently
that what passes by, or flies just over head
is better than leaving something left unsaid.
If you follow along with my song, this "-hi- tune",
the greater the chance is you'll see that quite soon,
despite the distraction (didactically speaking),
you'll find peace of mind is always in the seeking!
The farther this goes without showing how it
relates to the subject, or really commits
to interpretation - translation in kind
of all the odd things one might expect to find,
but couldn't quite say, or just couldn't converse
about "what it all means", or pertains to in verse,
and what's in a heart ... You see, this part's explaining
the facts of the matter, and thereto pertaining.
I'm happy I could. I mean, would you believe
that this effort here took a while to conceive?
It may not seem like much of a cogent epistle,
but it's the best I could do other than simply whistle
the tune in my head. Like I said, it's a song -
this thing I have written that gets rather long
without saying much, such and such, this and that.
So little in fact some might think it's just scat.
And they might be right. I won't fight that conclusion,
and risk that the fight might cause me the contusion
and bruising the losing of tempers would bring.
Or worse, if this verse I also had to sing.
But if there's a reason to this circumstance,
I thank you for giving me this certain chance
to have your attention, knowing what, where, why,
who, when, how to end this. Of course, with a ...
-hi-

I like that.. original?
Are you the hi I knew years ago? When we hung out with Chive?

Anyway.. here's a poem/song that fits:

Words are flowing out like endless rain into a paper cup,
They slither while they pass they slip away across the universe
Pools of sorrow, waves of joy are drifting through my opened mind,
Possessing and caressing me
Jai guru de va om
Nothing's gonna change my world
Nothing's gonna change my world
Nothing's gonna change my world
Nothing's gonna change my world
Images of broken light which dance before me like a million eyes,
They call me on and on across the universe,
Thoughts meander like a restless wind inside a letter box they
Tumble blindly as they make their way
Across the universe
Jai guru deva om
Nothing's gonna change my world
Nothing's gonna change my world
Nothing's gonna change my world
Nothing's gonna change my world

Sounds of laughter, shades of earth are ringing
Through my open ears inciting and inviting me
Limitless undying love which shines around me like a
million suns and calls me on and on
Across the universe
Jai guru deva om
Nothing's gonna change my world
Nothing's gonna change my world
Nothing's gonna change my world
Nothing's gonna change my world

Jai guru deva [Repeat to fade]

[-hi-]

Post by blu
I like that.. original?

I wrote the verse, if that's what you mean.

Post by blu
Are you the hi I knew years ago? When we hung out with Chive?

I don't know. I suppose it's possible. I've been around a while, and
vaguely recall a poster with that nym. I wouldn't say we "hung out"
though.
Here's another:

How to Be Happy

A proven method, tried and true,
works when I rely on you
to show me just how lame I'd be
were it not for my poet tree
that grows, and shows its foliage.
No substitute for new knowledge,
yet still it helps us pass the times
that pass us by in simple rhymes.

I wrote this thinking just how sad
a poster gets when she's been had,
and had you've been, are being now,
and so this verse is showing how
such sadness leads me to be silly;
to think in terms a blu pond lily
understands. If you're perplexed,
then click the link on the line next.

http://www.truthtree.com/rat.shtml

-hi-

[blu]

Post by -hi-

Post by blu
I like that.. original?

I wrote the verse, if that's what you mean.

Yes

Post by -hi-

Post by blu
Are you the hi I knew years ago? When we hung out with Chive?

I don't know. I suppose it's possible. I've been around a while, and
vaguely recall a poster with that nym. I wouldn't say we "hung out"
though.

I remember a couple 3-way IMs.. but it was so long ago.. it's really
irrelevant.

Post by -hi-
How to Be Happy
A proven method, tried and true,
works when I rely on you
to show me just how lame I'd be
were it not for my poet tree
that grows, and shows its foliage.
No substitute for new knowledge,
yet still it helps us pass the times
that pass us by in simple rhymes.
I wrote this thinking just how sad
a poster gets when she's been had,
and had you've been, are being now,
and so this verse is showing how
such sadness leads me to be silly;
to think in terms a blu pond lily
understands. If you're perplexed,
then click the link on the line next.
http://www.truthtree.com/rat.shtml

{{{{{-hi-}}}}}
Thank you. That did, indeed, help.

[-hi-]

Post by blu
I remember a couple 3-way IMs.. but it was so long ago.. it's really
irrelevant.

That wouldn't have been me.

Post by blu
Thank you.

You're very welcome, of course.

Post by blu
That did, indeed, help.

I know. It's like ... well, ... magic!

-hi-

[blu]

Post by -hi-

Post by blu
I remember a couple 3-way IMs.. but it was so long ago.. it's really
irrelevant.

That wouldn't have been me.

OK. I was just curious. The other 'hy' disappeared into the ether..

Post by -hi-

Post by blu
Thank you.

You're very welcome, of course.

Post by blu
That did, indeed, help.

I know. It's like ... well, ... magic!

< smile >
I feel much beetter today, after coffee, usenet, friends (old and new) and
heart-to-heart talk with a very rational person. It would have been an
awkward relationship.. me being me and he being Christian.. not to mention
other factors.. like I'm from the Deep South and he's at the top of a
mountain.. There's a quote from a song.. lemme see if I can find it:

"We've all indulged in the bulge of those no no no's, you ain't solo
It's even lower level you can go, take sun people put em in the land
of snow"

That's been on my mind big-time. Weird person, yea.. but I enjoy life. :)

If this is more info than you want, just tell me to shut up. lol!!

[-hi-]

Post by blu
"We've all indulged in the bulge of those no no no's, you ain't solo
It's even lower level you can go, take sun people put em in the land
of snow"

When in disgrace with fortune and men's eyes, I all alone beweep my ...
Outkast
state.

-hi-